Female revolt in male cultural imagination in contemporary Japan

23Oct/0630

Female revolt in male cultural imagination in contemporary Japan

Sharon Kinsella, currently Visiting Professor at MIT's Dept of Foreign Languages and Literature, delivered the 4th Chino Kaori lecture on the above-mentioned title at my alma mater, SOAS, on 2006-10-20. Among Kinsella's published work, her most famous to date is Adult Manga: Culture and Power in Contemporary Japanese Society (1999). The lecture will be published by the Sainsbury Institute at a later date and draws on material from her forthcoming book, Girls and Male Imagination: Fantasies of rejuvenation in contemporary Japan.

Kinsella traces images of female revolt, manifested through acts of violence and sexual liberation, in various media - films, novels, manga and anime and the accompanying dicussion among journalistic and intellectual circles. She points out the irony that this cultural material and the academic discourse is produced almost exclusively by older men. While many of these left-leaning intellectuals claim to be giving a sympathetic voice to the theme of feminist liberation, Kinsella questions if their subjectivity can be truly representative and that their efforts may, perversely, result in another male appropriation of the female voice for its own purposes.

Starting with something familiar to a Western audience, Kinsella examined how Quentin Tarantino's Kill Bill combined savage female revenge and cute dress (particularly in the character of Gogo Yubari) was influenced by and paid homage to films like Toshiya Fujita's Lady Snowblood Vol. 1 (1973) and Shunya Ito's Female Prisoner Scorpion #701 (1972). However while early feminist discourses in the West reacted mainly against the drugdery of housekeeping and childrearing, in Japan one of the central themes was how women were often sold into prostitution and workhouses by fathers and husbands.

The advent of compensated dating (enjo kousai) is often discussed in terms of consumerism as well as the breakdown of socio-cultural order and values in the mode of Stanley Cohen's moral panics. However, on the flip side, it has also been celebrated as a school girl rebellion against patriachy. In contrast to the bondage and slavery of previous eras [even as recently as the immediate post-war period - cf John Dower's Embracing Defeat: Japan in the Wake of World War II (1999)], compensated dating could also be interpreted as an autonomous, voluntary and consciously self-serving use of their body by females to lure, manipulate and exploit the old men (oyaji) - a subtext of films like Masato Harada's Bounce Kogals (1997) where a lead character milks salarymen for money but always endeavouring to withhold sex.

The combination of school girls and rebellion is further explored through films like Shuji Terayama's Throw Out Your Books, Let's Rally On The Streets (1971), Masao Adachi's Schoolgirl Guerillas (1969) and Tetsuya Koshiba's violent schoolgirl conspiracy manga Movement for the Eradication of Compensated Dating (????????, 1998). In the former two, there's this whole attempt, by Jun Tosaka and others, to link female liberation with the subaltern discourse as well as Marxist and anarchist agendum but it's the latter work that has the most resonance for the contemporary era and the closest link to anime/manga.

Kinsella draws on Saito Tamaki, the psychiartist who gave us the term hikkikomori, to discuss the massification (diffusion from art house films into mass media TV and cable) of the armed female as the lead character. She highlighted how Hayao Miyazaki's Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away featured not just strong female lead characters but also motifs of female subjugation (for PM, the workers in the iron mine who prefer their life there to their previous one in a brothel and in SA, where our heroine slaves away in a bathhouse - a euphemism for and stylistically similar to Edo-era whorehouses - to rescue ungrateful parents). Given how emancipatory social and environmental themes permeate Miyazaki's work, this was a reasonable link to make.

Whether female audiences will object to Miyazaki's ideas or his ability to represent their aspirations is something more difficult. Kinsella's claim highlights one of the problems I have with some feminist approaches is how they are often merely invert male subjectivity for a female one and do not really achieve the inter-subjectivity that they claim to seek. Of course, that is not to say that the feminist approach has not shed valuable insights into socio-political phenomena, such as Cynthia Enloe's Bananas, Bases and Beaches: Making Feminist Sense of International Politics (1989).

I do agree that there is dollops of irony in claims by older, highly educated intellectual men claim the right to speak for young girls because if they were not mute with an inarticulateness arising from a lack of cultivated vocubalory, they would say what these oyaji are purportedly saying on their behalf. There is a legitimate concern and problematique of how such male (mis-?)appropriation of the female voice could structure social relations in a way that perpetuates or even creates new forms of injustice and misconceptions. There is also a possibility that this narcissitic subjectivity reflects an angst and yearning for the failed promise of the student revolts of the 1960s that those who have lost their youth are now projecting on a younger generation that no longer cares about all that stuff. Kinsella also cites material like the cover of New Realities Vol.2 (???) which juxatapose a school girl with sunflowers in the barrel of her rifle to signal society's opposition to the invasioni of Iraq as well as an end to the gender wars.

Nonetheless, I had enormous problems accepting how Kinsella links some anime series with this idea of narcissitic male subjectivity claiming to represent female voice through the image of the armed female character. It seemed to be pretty preposterous to use Legend of the Overfiend as an example as there's no real female lead and we see the story mostly through the eyes of the male Amano Jyaku. My eyebrow also started doing the twitchy thing when she cited Urusei Yatsura and Revolutionary Girl Utena as supporting [rather than anomolous] examples of her hypothesis - Rumiko Takahashi and Chiho Saito are no oyaji by any stretch of the imagination. [caveat: I might have misheard her as I was scribbling furiously and she spoke very quickly most of the time.] La Blue Girl certainly seems to fit the requirements of armed/magical female lead using violence that springs from the male cultural imagination but the anime hardly carries the sensibilities of the art house films cited above and is sometimes even regarded as a parody of the tentacle rape genre.

Her other examples like Sailor Moon (we were subjected to the cringe-inducing first transformation scene) and Go Nagai's Cutie Honey manga were less contentious. At one level, I'm not fully aware of how revolutionary these were when they were first released but they're not particularly violent, not particularly anti-patriachial nor particularly sexually liberating (the nude transformation scenes seem more like fan service than feminism to me). Perhaps someone from the Ole Skool can set me straight on this. There's no critical examination of other major cases of the armed female lead like Ghost in the Shell's Motoko Kusanagi (with her much more subtle characterisation in the original manga and in 2nd Gig) or Miyazaki's Nausicaa - it is because they occupy positions of authority rather than rebellion and thus undermines the hypothesis? And what about comparing how the similarities and differences between these male-created magical girl anime/manga are compared to female-conceived ones? Are they really that different? Who is influencing who? For example, one can never look at the magical girl transformation sequence in quite the same way ever again after seeing how CLAMP ridicules the idea of auto-materializing costume/uniform and automatic stances in Cardcaptor Sakura.

Kinsella concluded by favourably quoting Tamaki about how armed girls share and transmit energy to their male audiences (and creators?) in that they are empty - disembodied, disengaged and impotent projections of male subjectivity, not just purporting to speak for women but actually blocking the route of female expression and emancipation as well as manipulating female agency. In effect, they are phallic girls. Other than the ironic fact that Tamaki is a man, this victimization-type discourse also ignores the agency of women creators of cultural products (like Rumiko Takahashi, Chiho Saito, CLAMP and many others), women consumers of such products (I'm sure there are Japanese equivalents of thoughtful female anime bloggers like Erica Friedman, Ten, Ren, Mina, Hinano, problematic and others) and that, sometimes, it may be a bit much to expect grand socio-politics out of mass media products. It's a familiar dilemma. In my field of study, despite various attempts to look at popular media like science fiction or movies to expand our imaginations, they have not really moved the rest of the academic international relations community. Thus, despite all my bellyaching, I look forward to Kinsella's next book and to more lectures like this.

Posted by Zyl

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Pete Zaitcev
October 23rd, 2006 - 16:28

The conclusion completely ruined the presentation. For the longest part it appropriated the tools of liberal codswallop (“discourses”, “agency”) to demolish the arguments and expose the bankrupcy of one its finer representatives, and then it gave up everything gained by cowardly self-deprecation.

– Pete

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Haesslich
October 23rd, 2006 - 17:33

…

One more reason I didn’t continue in the field and into academia. Too many times you find reality distorted or creatively edited in order to fit a theory, all in the name of science.

Not only did she ignore the rise of female creators, but the past ten to fifteen years have seen both female creators AND female-focused words (josei or shoujo manga) that have often gone on to become anime or at least hugely popular. Hataraki Man, for example, looks at the woman in the workplace – young, single, and extremely focused. Or we could go the route of Happi Mania, an earlier Moyoco Anno work, which is dramatic and men-fixated to an extent… but at the same time, the main character’s no wilting pushover or male-fantasy fulfillment character like half of the harem manga out there.

Or, as you noted, from over ten years ago we’ve got Motoko Kusanagi (who is a cop in CHARGE of a team of male counterparts, yet definitely isn’t hyper-macho), or even Neon Genesis Evangelion which had two women in authority roles (Misato and Ritsuko), and which ended with what could be seen as the ultimate female revenge (returning everyone to LCL). You don’t have to go too far to find examples which don’t completely refute her ideas (after all, look at the sheer avalanche of harem shows that have shown up the past ten years, or hentai/ecchi manga and anime), but which show that stronger female role models (well, I kinda discount NGE there too) have been out for years… and often, even the slightly-ecchi stuff is written by the women (CLAMP seems to enjoy this, and Ai Yazawa’s characters often end up in bed…)

Still, as soon as you use Marxism as a way to examine your theory or hypothesis, you’ve lost the argument. It’s like bringing Nazis into an argument with someone – once you start comparing them to Nazis, you’ve automatically failed.

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tj han
October 23rd, 2006 - 17:35

What, you’re in London now? To hear about anime?

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Zyl
October 23rd, 2006 - 18:10

Pete, my conclusion could be read as a less sudden reversal if one reads the whole paragraph in which I state that I take Kinsella’s research questions seriously. Being a bit of liberal pinko myself, I don’t buy all of the post-modern stuff and think Alan Sokal has a point, I do think that some of the so-called “liberal codswallop” is useful and valuable. In any case, I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to misattribute this quote to Voltaire.

Haesslich, I do take issue with some of her interpretation and selection of cases especially the anime/manga ones but to reiterate – I don’t reject Kinsella’s whole framework. I have had the WTF feeling sometimes during class but I do aspire to be on the other side.

tjhan, I’ve been in London for over a year already except for three weeks back in Sg during the summer. Still on a quest…

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Haesslich
October 23rd, 2006 - 19:14

Zyl: I’m taking major issues with her examples, enough to suggest she will want to rework her framework. It’s not completely WRONG, but it’s creaky enough that I’d want to redo some of my ideas in her shoes… or at least find ways of reinforcing them. Yes, there’s a lot of harem and male-power-wish-fulfillment fantasies out there still, but female artists and fans are carving their own place in the landscape. They’ve been building strong-points for years, both male and female creators setting up stronger female characters without falling into the stereotypes for ‘strong’ female roles (Tsundere, the ‘First Lady’ of the household, mother figure) that are usually found throughout the genre, especially in harem and shounen-focused shows.

Rumiko Takahashi’s an interesting example, as one of the first majorly successful female creators – four of her manga have gone onto anime which have been quite popular, and which didn’t necessarily fall into the stereotypes (although I’d say that Ranma 1/2 skirts that line as did Urusei Yatsura), and having a male character who ends up having to live in both worlds (as in Ranma) is a concept which didn’t see much circulation before that, at least not in popular culture IIRC. Although, unlike CLAMP, she didn’t really focus on her romances as much in later works as she did her earlier ones (Maison Ikkoku is the most famous of these), catering to an audience more focused on action if anything.

CLAMP’s gone another route – they do lampoon the magical girl idea to some extent (witness the incident where Tomoyo ended up pulling out a whole van full of magical girl outfits), although in other ways she embodies it; transforming wand which is the source of all of her power, having an animal form sidekick, etc. Then you get things like xxxHolic which buck that stereotype; yes, there’s a magical WOMAN in there (far more mature than the typical 13-18 age range required for magical girls), but her magic is both more subtle and more terrible than anything else others bring in.. and the story is ultimately less about her than about the young man she’s shepherding through his teenage years and spirit troubles. In Tsubasa Chronicles, Sakura’s less of a magical girl than she was before (they end up buying or borrowing outfits, she doesn’t have many ‘innate’ powers – nor a wand), but still her role varies somewhat… as she’s ultimately a support character as well as a justification for the plot, so I guess it’s more a shounen manga than a shoujo one.

Ironically, male creators have formed some of the most influential Anime Women who have both power and emotional strength; Motoko Kusanagi (Masamune Shirow, known as much for his depictions of naked women as much as anything), Urd and maybe Belldandy (Kosuke Fujishima), Misato Katsuragi (Hideaki Anno – although I’d say this is debatable, she is in a position of power), San and Lady Eboshi (Hayao Miyazaki), and so on. But, of course, they’re the product of MALE creators, so don’t really count under hard-line feminist theory, as they’re missing the true female identity which is required to make them strong female role models (which is undefined, but is not motherly yet not macho, strong without being cruel – something that most of the women I named above have but which would be ignored by some theorists due to the blatant sexuality some of them have, yet to deny it would also be falling into the stereotype of ‘male depictions of strong women are of them as lesbians or cold’).

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Erica Friedman
October 23rd, 2006 - 20:17

I suppose that it will be seen as typically feminine of me to point out that most of the characters mentioned…indeed most female characters and particularly female leads in anime really have very little power or strength at all. Whether they are created by women or by men. Indeed, few anime leads of either gender have even normal strength of character. I’ve written frequently on the typical anime lead who appears either average or below average in most basic life skills, which contrasts nicely with the extraordinary people and situations s/her finds him/herself involved with. This basic premise drives most anime – this masking technique allows most people to identify with Tenchi/Usagi/whoever.

The Kusanagi Motoko of the original Ghost in the Shell might have been physically competent, but in every other way shows no signs of having what *I* identify as strength. She is a shell herself, (over)wrought with crises of existence and conscience.

I don’t think female creators of female characters are any better representative of the women they are supposed to speak for. For one thing, it’s a rare anime/manga writer who sets out to make a political statement. To call Sailor Moon/Usagi a good example of a female created strong female character borders on the absurd. She was created as a form of entertainment, not to portray a strong female. In fact, her main quality is her lack of strength, until all else is lost when she suddenly digs deep to find some small kernel of strength with which to fight. Is that the message we’re supposed to read into Sailor Moon? That we should remain passive until all else is gone, then fight back? No, of course not. We’re supposed to read “shiny magical girl with shiny wand fights monster and, yay!” Anyone reading anything else into the text is simply being silly.

When an anime/manga creator creates a female character not subject to the influence of the whims of the people around her, when she is economically indepependent and able to choose her path (like the Major Kusanagi of the GitS TV show, in stark contrast to her first incarnation). Of course…it’ll probably make a crappy anime, because that is NOT what anime is about.

From what I can tell, the real point Kinsella is making is not that female creators of female characters may or may not be better at speaking for their gender, but the absurdity of thefact that the majority of academic discourse on the topic is conducted by men, about characters created for the pleasure of men, and supposed, by these men, to represent girls’ and womens’ view of independence.

Hmm…I notice most of the posters refuting the point are men too. I’m shocked, as you can imagine.

Is it REALLY so hard to see how idiotic academic discussion by oyaji about the very girls they exploit, is?

Apparently, the answer is yes.

I await the female anime character who is created by a man with actual strength of self, economic independence and who is able to shape the world around her, more or less, without somehow having to also be the target of sexual objectification to make it “okay”. Tomb Raiders need not apply.

I’m not holding my breath.

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Haesslich
October 23rd, 2006 - 21:27

Good question – let me review my list of anime and manga and get back to you with either a good example, or an admission that I can’t find one. Currently doing laundry, so don’t have much time to post. However, as far as the people who are arguing the point goes… I wonder how many female bloggers or readers that Zyl here has? That audience affects what is discussed – if an audience is mostly male, that may affect the viewpoints presented versus if it was mostly female.

Of course, the issue here then becomes ‘can there be a truly representative discussion of gender roles with the participation of both genders’, although I do wonder how you’d look at the whole ‘trap’ phenomenon which is become more common with recent anime shows, and the effeminate male image that they present, especially when it’s not an attempt at mockery or to gain laughs (as per Keroro Gunso’s use of Keroro in drag).

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wontaek
October 23rd, 2006 - 21:31

>>> At one level, I

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Crusader
October 23rd, 2006 - 21:39

Sorry Ms. Friedman I am not female, and yes this lack of female input is decidedly curious. I think that its because Zyl’s readership is mostly of the male rather than any discriminatory practice, after all this is a moral vaccuum where even meido-goth-loli-sis-cons are welcomed.

I always find it strange how men are precieved in feminist circles. Its a paradox if men and women are equal and a man can be an influential voice for the feminist movement why is his message not held in the same esteem? More over why is he then accused of trying to usurp the movement? If men and women are equal why is there still grounds for hostility and the cry of men can’t understand? I really don’t have any idea of where feminists are trying to go or what kind of world they envision but I don’t think their main issue of abortion rights is as clear cut as it seems. Equal pay, and harrassment are far more vague, while violence and rape are issues that are not exclusive to their cause. I don’t think that every man is out there to exploit women, I for one would welcome any one and every one intrested in my part time profession as long as they are not both lazy and amitious.

I always thought that the role Sailor Moon played was establishing magical girl as mainstream and uphold the idea that every girl is some how special no matter their failings. It thought the ultimate moral of Sialor Moon was “never give in, never give up” or a more mild version of “cowards die daily, the valiant taste death but once.”

I disagree with comrade Friedman’s preception of power, yes it may not be like Stalin’s, but it is power nonetheless. (consequently, Comrade Haesslich if I bring Stalin, but not Nazis into the arguement have I alreday lost? Stalin was a Stalinist not a Nazi so….?) These female characters have power whether to tell their underlings what to do or delivery a righteous smiting to their foes. It is still power, power over another being. I guess strong women as depicted by women are a bit more subtle about their power. In this sense I think I know who has been reading Sun Tzu. I find it very curious as how power is prequisite for being strong and thus equal rather than simply being skilled. I think that fighting and subsequently warfare are widely precieved (for the most part rightly IMHO) as the great equalizer in defining social and racial roles. After all if a social inferior went off to fight and proved that they can be as brave, and crazy if not more so as their social superiors justification for keeping “social inferiors” down becomes harder especially if these “inferiors” saved your butt. Besides when has war been very discriminate in regards to anything but technological, tactical, strategic, and logistical qualitites?

I don’t think economic independence creates equality, after all the Jews had long been economically independent during the days of anti-semetism being in vogue but they were often relegated to being inferior. Moreover they were held in contempt, the same could be said of any group of diaspora that formed up in ethnic neighborhoods in the US.

Still this reminds me of why I laugh at political science, psychology, and social science. Political scientists tend to prophesize, psychologists are too in love with drugs and/or their ideas, and social science might was well be called scientific Marxism. I am glad I went into Microbiology and history instead, I probabaly would be good at quibbling about this sort of stuff.

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Xellos-_^
October 23rd, 2006 - 21:45

Erica,

Haman Khan, Gundam Z and ZZ
Haruka, H2
Emeraldas, Queen Emeraldas

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quigonkenny
October 24th, 2006 - 00:04

Erica Friedman said:
I await the female anime character who is created by a man with actual strength of self, economic independence and who is able to shape the world around her, more or less, without somehow having to also be the target of sexual objectification to make it

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Eleutheria
October 24th, 2006 - 00:22

Wow, what a change of tone from your usual posts.

I’m not sure I agree with the point that having a majority of feminist discourse conducted by oyaji-tachi is *necessarily* a bad thing. It is true that there are huge dangers of only one-sided views aired, but saying that only females can truly articulate feminism veers dangerously close to solipsism.

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wontaek
October 24th, 2006 - 00:34

>>> Haman Khan, Gundam Z and ZZ
Haruka, H2
Emeraldas, Queen Emeraldas

Note that these all happened in 80s. My favorite heroine remains to be Sita from Laputa: Castle in the Sky. Despite her docile appearance, she always take stands for what she believes in and was not afraid to take initiative. You can see, from the beginning, that with or without help from Pazu, she would have resisted Musuka in whatever form possible. She never really helped Musuka consciously, and she strove to actively hinder Musuka. In terms of intent and effort, there isn’t anything more she could have done, and that should be all you can ask from a human being. Except for Rana in Conan, most of Miyazaki’s heroines exuded strong will to change her surroundings, often succedding in their endeavors.

finally, allow me to say this again. There is a good social reason why NHK has aired 12 Kingdoms and is making Saiungoku Monogatari. Both females and males should learn something from these two series.

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omo
October 24th, 2006 - 01:10

Wow, I like the discourse going on and thanks for the write-up. Lots of food for thought… Just want to fire off some comments.

(*) The Major from Ghost in the Shell. I agree with Erica Friedman that she is actually one of the very definitive “phallic girl” out there. The Stand Alone Complex rendition tends to (de)personalize her in a more gender-neutral sense, so I’m not sure if it’s a more positive feminine image especially the few opportunities during the two TV series she didn’t really seem like a girl at all, when she could have.

(*) Erica Friendman should go watch Honey & Clover. We all should! Hataraki Man is also a good thing to see if you’re interested in this topic. I’m in no way a real feminist (maybe a closet feminist?) but I think the interconnectedness of the character development in H&C really brings out the strength of character of the two lead girls in the show (and the differences in strength between them). Forget about Balalaika or Emeraldas.

(*) The oyaji in academia. As someone who’s on the path in becoming yet another academic oyaji (lest I take the, heh, the well-tread path to a career with $), I take this self-irony seriously. I’ve already committed enough sins along this line (most notably a 45-page paper) and as a perpetrator I can say that it is difficult to correct for that myopia on my own; especially when you lack the practical experience working with women who suffers from these kinds of problems in the various social issues that still stand the need for a uplifting, female-empowering philosophy. That said, I don’t think it’s practical either to expect much. Someone has to talk about it, and I’d rather some oyaji narcissist talk about it than no one at all. Academic talk on this kind of thing is still in its infancy, BUT, yes, more power to someone who actually can watch that stuff, and calls it for what it is.

I think ultimately the core of any feminist movement has to be made up of (mostly) women. And until women take up the slack, men has to do the job. It’s not a case of historic prosecution and cultural enslavement here. You just gotta do what you have to do.

(*) Kinsella on Miyazaki. From what Zyl posted I actually agree with that whole-heartedly. I always had a hard time buying feminist arguments that took Miyazaki’s flagship works as positive examples for some reason :3

Lastly, I wonder how Kinsella feels about Shiina Ringo.

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reslez
October 24th, 2006 - 01:33

This post has been very interesting, so I apologize in advance if my remarks do not rise to the level of the discussion. Thank you wontaek for mentioning SaiMono and 12 Kingdoms, which are the 2 anime that most quickly spring to mind when I try to think of half-decent female heroines. In my own perspective (I am a woman) I find it somewhat disturbing to see women or girls in anime dolled up in ridiculous outfits and fighting on equal terms with male characters. There seem to be two possible messages here:

One, that violence against women is entirely acceptable if the woman fights back or has cool toys. This is not limited to anime, however. See Alias or Kill Bill already mentioned for live action versions. The reality is that any woman faces a disadvantage in a physical fight with a man. If anime depicted fights as they occur in reality we would be much less comfortable with these images. Is it possible this could desensitize us or make this violence more acceptable due to the sheer number of series in which it occurs? Images are extremely powerful things.

Two, that the way for women to achieve equality with men is through fighting. I’ve already mentioned this is a fool’s errand due to the innate biological fact of gender. But why does so much anime glorify violence, and why is this so often the only way for characters to express their worth as individuals?

Note that the female character always dresses provocatively. These characters are intended to function as pure fantasy objects. It is ridiculous to say these characters are in any way empowering. They glorify sex and violence and the objectification of women; to make anything more of them is to give them dignity they do not deserve. Note also that I personally enjoy many of these series. Many of them are very entertaining. But we should be aware of what they have to offer when we think about them seriously.

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Crusader
October 24th, 2006 - 02:38

Actually reslez in real life warfare the gun is the great equalizer and there are militaries that have women in combat while the US does not do this officially, the fact is they are in combat no matter what unit they get assigned to. Militaries of other nations do have female combat soldiers and they fight just as well as men. Russia has been doing it for decades, resitance movements also have employed women in combat, and the IDF is not a force to sneeze at either. While it is true about the battle bikini there are women who do see military service as affirmation that they do have an equal stake in the fate of their society and country. If you look at minorities in various cuntries military service is also a point of pride even Nisei volunteered to fight even when their familes were packed away to internment camps beause they felt that they were Americans first and that they had something to prove the rest of the country. Despite being segregated their Elan eventually earned them the honor being one of the most highly decorated units of the war. In the field of intelligence they greatly aided the Allied war effort as translators of intercepts and captured documents. I believe that in armed conflict everyone is more or less equal and talented individuals should be the ones to contribute the boy club mentality that remains is detrimental to a fighting force. A boy’s club mentality in the upper echelons of command can be disasterous, just was it was during the American Civil War.

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Seth
October 24th, 2006 - 06:50

@Zyl

I’m not sure I so much object to this premise as question its relevance. This is partly because I have a somewhat lazy approach to the sociopolitics of entertainment media, so I guess there is that bias to my response.

First of all, while I understand anime is considerably more popular in Japan than in most of the West, I had thought that it was still rather niche compared to other entertainment media (i.e. live action films). I’d object to a (relatively) niche media being used as a significant source of influence on cultural gender perception.

Manga is far less niche (as I understand at least); however while I am unaware of many (any?) female anime directors, there are both far more female mangaka and a much broader selection of uhmm — I don’t have a good word for this; let’s just say that manga cover far more topics, target audiences, creative agendas, philosophies of construction and so forth than anime, largely (presumably) because manga is much more widely consumed than anime.

The more general objection I have goes back to my problem with much of sociopolitical-oriented criticism in the first place: a tendency to imply the consumer as a passive and entity that simply absorbs the agenda of the creator and is influenced by it in a straightforward and readily apparent way. Particularly if one wants to make a point about how entertainment media affect culture, then it seems to me that the focus should be on how those media are received rather than the agendas (conscious or otherwise) of their creators.

@Erica,

That’s an interesting point about tyipcal anime protagonists and their lack of actual power, though (I *think* I’m just agreeing with you here) it does not seem to be particularly specific to female characters vs. male. I think *some* of this is related to some inherent tendencies of the format. It’s difficult to express a complete range of humanity in an artificial character. With books, it’s different, because the reader can extrapolate. At some level, all animation is caricature, and I think this has something to do with the phenomenon of weak characters.

@Xellos,

Considering Haman’s major character motivations, I think she is actually a really bad example for you to use. Gundam and Gundam Z do, I think, have some other potential candidates though.

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serotonin
October 24th, 2006 - 06:54

To the above you stated:

“I await the female anime character who is created by a man with actual strength of self, economic independence and who is able to shape the world around her, more or less, without somehow having to also be the target of sexual objectification to make it ‘okay’.”

I think that kind of describes the Haruhi Suzumiya character to a tee. I am also surprised that the last episode of Mai Hime is not being discussed. It is a newer series, but it does feature highly sexualized characters revolving around a high school all in various forms of the power structure and social structure of the school. It also features the magic girl motif and thematics that are with in the whole “teenagers save the world genre.” Nevertheless, the last episode in particular pays sharp attention to not only the theme of lesbian love, but also female power in terms of mariage and the ability to shape the world. It ultimately leads to a renogiation in terms of the gender political structure of the fantasy element to the series, but also with female strength in terms of identity.

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Seth
October 24th, 2006 - 07:18

Also, @ anyone citing Hataraki Man as an example of anything:

Hataraki Man is the ONLY anime I have ever seen to focus on a woman over the age of 18 that does not focus on sexual/romantic relationships (unless it actually does; I mean I only saw the first episode), AND is not an action or science fiction piece. So it might be a really bad example.

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Seth
October 24th, 2006 - 07:30

Before somebody mentions SaiMono again, I guess I should just clarify that to anime in current-time settings, i.e. what we called in Elementary School “realistic fiction,” a term I’m not particularly fond of, but there it is.

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jpmeyer
October 24th, 2006 - 14:51

On Cutie Honey:

I was of the impression that what was somewhat liberating at the time about Cutie Honey was not the nudity (which I too can’t see as anything other than fanservice), but her transformative power. When you get down to it, her power is basically that she can become anything that she wants to be. Racecar driver, model, photographer, whatever, she can do it.

@Serotonin

Those are EXACTLY my beliefs on My-Hime. It’s really tricky because there is so much fanservice, yet at the same time the gender politics are actually quite progressive once the show “gets serious”. I really don’t know what to make of the fact that the first half of the show has its panty thief and beach episodes, and then the second half starts being about overthrowing the patriarchy or regaining agency or dissolving the butch/femme binary (notice how Natsuki and Shizuru keep flipping and altering this!).

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omo
October 24th, 2006 - 17:45

Re: Mai Hime

I get the same feeling from the second half of the show as I did with the latter parts of Utena. Difference being: were they aware what they were doing? I’m suspicious if Hiroyuki Yoshino is conciously aware of all of this. OTOH Utena’s themes are mostly on purpose? Especially when you put all of that in the context of Mai Otome…

Re: Seth
“then it seems to me that the focus should be on how those media are received rather than the agendas (conscious or otherwise) of their creators.”

I think there’s a lot to be said in the choice of animation or manga to be used. It just doesn’t make sense to talk about feminism when you’re using porn, you know?

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reslez
October 25th, 2006 - 03:34

Crusader – I am a woman and a military vet. You don’t need to tell me that women are as good as men at physical fighting. It just isn’t so. Technology can make the playing field more even, but again, why is it so important for women to be equal to men when it comes to violence?

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Crusader
October 25th, 2006 - 06:37

reslez- Comrade! I knew there had to more of us hiding out in the anime blogosphere. What branch did you join? Enlisted or Officer? I guess martial prowess is subjective, I must admit my view on this is strictly from being a minority. Other than on female company commander who terrorised my sister company the only other female enlisted person that left me with a strong impression was a GM3. She tossed this one PS3 like a rag doll druing defensive tactics course and during MOUT training she got into more than most of us. She held this one second floor against two waves. While violence is a terrible thing its not that women can deal it equally its that hey are just as capable as men. For a long time the US military has been seen as a bastion of instiutionnalized discrimination, when colored troops enlisted they were segregated, when Truman ended it not every soldier went along willingly (I knew a Green Beret Master Sergeant who nearly had a desk dropped on him in the 1970s), when women were put in to fill increasing roles some soldiers laughed, and to this day the best the Gay community gets is the don’t ask don’t tell. The US military was and in someways is still a sort of boy’s club dealing violence is not the main issue it is whether or not you are allowed to serve in any capacity you want and are capable of doing. Military Service whether rightly or wrongly is seen as confrimation that you are a citizen to those who were not born in the US. For me the US gave my parents, grand parents, and great grand mother a better life than they could have had if they remained in the PRC. Despite all its flaws the US is my home I signed up so I could defend my fellow Americans and because I wanted to give something back.

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Haesslich
October 26th, 2006 - 04:09

I do wonder – why is ‘gender neutral’ a bad thing? Again, we have to remember how gender roles tend to be defined – primarily by men, as a way to seperate men from women, and thus justify the positions that are held, socioeconomically, politically, as well as cuturally and why they should or should not have any power. As far as being ‘feminine’ goes, I know female friend who would flatten me for even suggesting that their lifestyles, some of which are similar to the Major’s from the GITS:SAC series, aren’t ‘female’. I thought we were getting away from that idea of what ‘female’ and ‘male’ lifestyles were, outside of whatever constraints biology imposes. I personally wouldn’t consider H&C as very ‘empowering’ for women – the gender roles are very fixed there (the women are either mothers, wives, artists, or other ‘supportive’ roles which are very traditional, and one woman is violent yet always regrets her actions and ends up chasing after one of the male leads all over despite his lack of interest).

Others have cited example of ‘stronger female role models’ already, although I hesitate to throw any other examples in because my experience is more from within the past fifteen years or so. In a way, I’d like to use Azumanga Daioh, except the women there who are mature don’t have much influence outside the school yet are pretty independent financially (especially someone like Minamo ‘Nyamo’ Kurosawa, who doesn’t have Yukari’s bad habits). The women there aren’t usually singled out for being sexualized, although that does come into play as a joke where Tomo and Sakaki are concerned (the former emphasizing her ‘sexiness’ or comparing her attributes to Sakaki’s)… although Sakaki’s a bit of a contradiciton there too, which is another reason I hesitate to use it.

As far as violence goes… well, violence is a form of force, which is used to enable or allow for controls both socially and interpersonally – just as the rule of law, cultural rules and norms, and other psychological and emotional controls are a form of force, albeit less obvious. One reason that anime or at least some people emphasize women who can inflict violence as being equal to men is because women are often made subservient DUE to the lack of physical ability compared to males in many societies, in Japanese as well as Western cultures. The ability to do violence, or at least to fight on a level ‘equal’ to a man is seen as important in some ways because it shows the woman has the ability to wield physical force to keep her own person and will inviolate.

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Ben Applegate
October 26th, 2006 - 04:58

Re: Serotonin

I disagree. Haruhi lacks economic independence (she’s a child). But worse, she’s the classic Taming of the Shrew anti-feminist stereotype. She’s a powerful woman whose lack of self-control causes problems for those around her, who see the only hope for “taming” her as her attraction to Kyon. And when Kyon is bring her into line sexually her power dissipates. Terrible example.

I would suggest Erica Friedman spend some time with ABe yoshitoshi. His manga’s women (and his characters generally) struggle with maturity to be masters of their own lives. Mayuko of NieA_7 comes to mind in particular as a feminine but economically independent woman free of sexualization with exceptional strength of character. The Haibane are another good example — it’s possible to read that series as a group of women grappling on their own with past trauma, though the social hierarchy in that show is less clear-cut.

After reading these comments I had something else to say but there are too many ideas to keep floating around in my head. Thanks for the discussion.

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Ben Applegate
October 26th, 2006 - 06:19

I had a thinking shower and so here are my shower thoughts.

An interesting thing about the issue of male subjectivity is that the mainstream liberal position is to accept transgenderism, but many feminists bar men from feminist discourse for a lack of ability to understand the female experience. It seems to me that one of the conditions of acceptance of m-f transgenderism is admitting that men (or at least some men) are capable of a degree of understanding of the female experience.

Speaking of male versus female subjectivity, and to bring this back to anime, how about that Gedo Senki? The changes Goro made to the story from the Le Guin original seem like a textbook example of one of the men who doesn’t get it. Where Le Guin created a complex world of moral shades of gray, where the unbalancing is an elusive force, Goro conventionalizes the antagonist into an unabashedly evil villain who can be physically defeated by the male hero. Incidentally that hero is, in the movie, fighting to save his idealized agrarian family unit, which includes two women in traditional roles.

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omo
October 28th, 2006 - 02:39

Re: Haesslich

Gender neutrality isn’t problematic at all until you use it to show how it is an example of an empowered woman. It just isn’t so. I think the fact that Motoko Kusanagi is a woman in a man’s world makes you ask just why did Shirow made her so? I think the answer is obvious, and it’s not flattering. Of course, I don’t really think we can use Ghost in the Shell beyond its abstracted form, since it does illustrate a society fundamentally changed by technology in as much that the change in the physical makeup of a human being has evolved beyond into the whole “ghost” bit. All in all I just find it a poor example.

Now, if you find a woman in Motoko’s position in real life, the question then is how does she expresses her femininity? Is she a killer robot detective too, or is there a fundamental, human side to the work that she does which solicits an engendered response that is sorely absent from Motoko Kusanagi? Real life is much more complicated, but I suppose being a robot woman from the future can be not so unlike being “similar to the Major’s from the GITS:SAC series.”

I think what is scary is that it isn’t a matter of what is feminine or not, but a lack of gender (if not personal) identity. That’s the problem trying to reduce the problem in Ghost in the Shell and map it into real life. An immortal robot cannot be likened to anyone you’re likely to know. She’s not just a woman who’s also in the military/police force, playing a detective’s role.

And I think you have a wrong idea of what is empowering. In the real world far majority of people, men and women, live within their gender roles for the majority of their lives, if not completely. Just because they live outside their expected roles doesn’t mean they are empowered individuals, and people can still be empowered in doing their gender-specific, socially prescribed roles. Just because you’re a woman in college as a humanities/arts major doesn’t mean you can’t be in a powerful position. H&C is a story about just that. And even then I think the whole Hagu bit in the second season goes way beyond even that.

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Haesslich
October 28th, 2006 - 06:29

omo: In my situation, the women I know who are cops or military don’t go out of their way to be ‘frilly feminine’ or ‘giggle like brainless bimbos’ – they’re women, but at the same time it’s not something that DEFINES who they are. It’s a component, but not the whole definition of what they are. Defining someone strictly by their sexuality is, at least in my opinion, sexist in itself – since there are many traditional roles, and when someone doesn’t fit into them.. well, are they suddenly not female, or not male? What about the transgenders I know? Are they ‘mocking’ the feminine ideals because they want to be women and are actively undergoing surgery or hormone therapy to become so?

Motoko Kusanagi’s an interesting example, in a way – from what we saw of her earlier life (see Ep 11), she was a cyborg from a VERY early age, and probably before puberty kicked in – her brain is female, although she wouldn’t have dealt with many of the biological issues that would’ve come with puberty (menstruation, budding breasts, etc). What do you call an ‘engendered response’ in her situation? To dress up in bustiers and short skirts? To have a collection of pink things? To drink like a fish since she isn’t affected by alcohol? HOW do you define ‘feminine’ in her case? It’s interesting to see how they’ve illustrated how she coped with it in 2nd Gig, although she seems to go overboard in that respect (see the Taiwan episode for what I mean). Motoko carries on relationships with women (a nurse and someone else), she keeps a female body in order to keep a link to her past (the watch she wears) and she tends to wear skirts. She sees herself as female… even if she’s missing most of the biological components. In some ways, she’s much like the transgenders I know – being female is a matter of one’s point of view and the way one’s brain seems to work, rather than the external features, which may not necessarily reflect this viewpoint.

In real life, most of the women I know who are in similar positions (one’s a former Army type) is female, cuts her hair that way, but… well, she’s not shrinking, she’s economically independent, and she could probably kick my ass six ways to Sunday despite my having a head on her in height. She doesn’t feel a need to be a shrinking violet, nor does she need to be hypermacho – being female’s something she IS, but it’s not all she is or even a thing that defines what she is in totality. What is ‘feminine’ in her case? Wearing her hair short in a bob? Wearing traditional female underwear (I’ve never asked about this)? Having a period every month? Or does it involve acting in a way that’s ‘womanly’? What does she define as that, versus how I would define that? She knows she’s a woman, but she doesn’t act in a way that you would define as womanly, from what I can tell. And I pity the idiot who tries to treat her like any other Southern Belle…

As far as empowerment goes, I’m going by some of the viewpoints of my sociology teachers from back in college, including those in the women’s studies area (yes, they were women) who saw empowerment as being both in terms of attitude as well as political and cultural influence. And I don’t see Ayu as very empowered, in the end – she’s skilled, but she doesn’t ‘lead’ in her field like Rika does (even if the latter’s trying to pine away or commit suicide because Harada’s gone), nor does she have much influence outside of her small sphere of friends. She acts rather like she has little influence, and in a way that shows a lack of self-confidence unlike say… Hagu, who is supremely confident in her own abilities, and has the talent to be someone more influential.

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omo
November 7th, 2006 - 23:11

Late reply, but here goes.

I think first off we need to be clear with the words we use. Gender identity isn’t frilly dresses or anything like that. It’s things that are undeniably female. Like motherhood, or offering advices that only a woman could. I don’t think we can find a good definition that’s proscriptive, but I just don’t think you should quickly run to traditional stereotypes when anyone tries to describe gender roles and identities. I think it’s much more helpful if we look to reality.

Which is to say, you pointed out some important aspects, and I’d agree with these aspects, about Motoko Kusanagi. First off, it’s uncertain that we can even describe her as human, let alone a woman: she doesn’t even have a brains of a female, remember, unless cyberbrains had built-in gender differences (which was never the case IIRC) physically. And I think the rest follow just that: she’s really a funky scientific creation and GITS as a story revolves around her identity more so as a human, and somewhat as who she is descriptively in a sci-fi world. Furthermore, as I’ve repeatedly said already, most of the “gender” defining bits to her character are exactly those superficial, “frilly” rubber stamps that manga or anime use to quickly unload a big, complex concept onto a character within a short time–sex appeal and appearance.

Just what part of her is similar to women in her position that is uniquely female? I can’t say, but maybe you could, Haesslich. All I see is pandering and stale genderlessness.

Speaking of similar positions, though, I know of some women in art schools, so… I think those people wound find H&C telling an empowering story.

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