1. 

   Calawain
   February 26th, 2008 - 06:40

   “Hiromi also grew on me with this ep”

   Man you have wacky taste in women, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised since you liked Nemu, a bishoujo I have unheralded hate for.

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2. 

   Stripey
   February 26th, 2008 - 07:10

   Heh, the truth is I like pretty girls who are a little spoiled. I think beauty should have its privileges

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3. 

   Derek
   February 26th, 2008 - 07:19

   While the show does feel like it’s heading for a Hiromi end, I don’t really see the basis for it from a relationship standpoint between the two of them. All we really have between the two of them is the single repeated scene of “don’t leave me behind,” and, beyond that, it’s all been the angst/conflict of being possible siblings. I suppose we are supposed to believe they have always had a bit of a connection, but if Hiromi’s claim to Shin is basically “I saw him first,” then I fail to see why Noe and Shin’s more recent development isn’t significantly sweeter.

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4. 

   Calawain
   February 26th, 2008 - 09:29

   “Heh, the truth is I like pretty girls who are a little spoiled. I think beauty should have its privileges ”

   I spent 15 years in the same house as my self-centered and very spoiled little sister so I have a deep seated aversion to those types of women both in my real life relationships and in my anime watching. So I really can’t agree with your sentiments, hah.

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5. 

   Crusader
   February 26th, 2008 - 13:46

   Nemu is not in the same league as Noe, Noe is in a league of her own. Clearly your sis-con has addled your objective mind, guess that’s why you ate Raigomaru out of spite.

   The problem with Hiromi is that her retaliation was directed at Noe when it should have been Mrs. Nakagami and Shin-chan in the first place. You say that it feels right because of some metaphysical bond that they share, but it is not love. I see little point in Hiromi destroying herself for the sake of not being left behind. Hiromi is unable to even try to let her love go, and this to me smacks of KGNE level of idiotry and eventual inclusion of excessive collateral damage simply to spite the object of your affection. She does not act on her love, but resorts to petty jealousies. Hiromi wants Shin-chan to come and rescue her, and as it stands Nobuse’s love for Aiko runs far deeper than her’s for Shin. Hiromi is so wrapped up in having her prince come that she fails to see the superior prince at her doorstep who is willing to keep her company despite the fact that she is headed for a major breakdown.

   What has Shin-chan ever done for her that Jun has not done? What so he took her to the festival, big deal. Seeing as how Hiromi has been acting a bit immaturely she is very much that lost little girl of years past. Her emotional growth has been stunted and now she is learning the evil ways of Mrs. Nakagami. Sure they might end up together, but they have have so much baggage to answer for. Shin and Hiromi have not talked since the day she moved in, aye there is a wall between them but can they ever break it down? You may have the illusion that jealousy is alright, but look at what it has done to Mr. and Mrs. Nakagami. They are never intimate and it seems that her hate has made Mrs. Nakagami uglier as the years go by. If there is any love between them its is not plain as day if even there at all. Mrs. Nakagami is unable to forgive her husband or Hiromi’s mother, and now Hiromi is starting to resent Shin-chan and hate Noe. If Hiromi can’t forgive and by some happy happenstance that she and Shin end up together who is to say that they won’t reap the same fate as the Nakagami parents?

   I don’t think that we should allow pretty people get way with being spoiled. They are entitled to nothing and must earn what they seek. I don’t believe in handouts for lazy bums who want to sit around and look pretty. I’d sooner run a spoiled brat over with a tank than give them even an ounce of stale bread, spoiled people are no better than parasites and must be excised accordingly. Death to Privilege. Noe is Moe. Sieg Noe.

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6. 

   dsong
   February 26th, 2008 - 15:46

   When it comes to anime girls I’d have to say Hiromi ranks somewhere behind Nemu (but hopefully ahead of Kaede).

   Her bond with Shin seems rather superficial. They may have been close when they were very young but their friendship died down long ago – with only fond memories and lingering feelings to support them. Shin’s mother has been a major obstacle to restoring that bond, but the show implies that a large part of it had been lost even before Hiromi moved into the household. Shin’s closest friends are Miyokichi and Ai at this point, and it’s rather telling that there are no RECENT flashbacks that indicate a continued close friendship with Hiromi.

   Actions speak louder than words and words speak louder than feelings. And when it comes to actions AND words, there’s no contest – as Noe has become the more prominent figure in his life. One can even make a similar argument when comparing Shin and Jun, as Jun has been able to make an instant connection with Hiromi and was there for her when she needed him the most.

   As for Hiromi it’s rather telling that she literally threw himself at Jun at the height of her troubles (ironically, just as Shin’s mother was showing signs of softening). Once again, you can feel whatever you want, but what you actually DO makes a difference as well.

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7. 

   Cipher
   February 26th, 2008 - 19:57

   *sigh* True tears 8 = mental stress, even more than any Electronics Design assignment I’ve had. Doesn’t help that there’s no CLANNAD to lighten the week either.

   “The problem with Hiromi is that her retaliation was directed at Noe when it should have been Mrs. Nakagami and Shin-chan in the first place. You say that it feels right because of some metaphysical bond that they share, but it is not love.”

   Well yes, it should have been directed at Mrs Nakagami and Shinichiro (Shinichiro I can’t quite agree, but I’ll accept it for now), but between a situation created out of her own lie to the ‘prince’ she longs for, and her current status at the Nakagami household, I can certainly understand why she took her frustration out on Noe, there would be much less backlash to deal with. After all, Noe did start a fight with her in the last episode, and even if Noe was trying to be reconcillatory, there is still that element of jealousy. And to me, jealousy is a proof of how she loves Shinichiro. For without jealousy, she would just lie down in defeat and let Noe take Shinichiro away from her, hardly befitting an attitude of a person in love. Sure, there is the Mr/Mrs Nakagami case to disprove what I’m saying, but that is a relationship that has been marred by jealousy since ages ago. Hiromi and Shinichiro haven’t even approached that sort of time length, so I’m still willing to believe in her letting go of her jealousy when the time comes.

   “What has Shin-chan ever done for her that Jun has not done? What so he took her to the festival, big deal.”

   It’s more than that. Shin-chan and her have a past together. They’ve been in every class together since middle/elementary school (TT1 flashback). That’s a big deal. To say that all that, along with her lies and the pain of not being able to love someone you live with for so long, should be wasted for a man who has only begun to show his worth as a boyfriend is unreasonable. Jun certainly grew on me a lot with this ep, and right now I don’t mind him being Hiromi’s partner as well, BUT I think it’s not fair to expect Hiromi to ditch her love for Shinichiro as if it was nothing, just for Jun. Give me a few more eps of Jun being a worthy boyfriend and I’ll be convinced.

   “…and now she is learning the evil ways of Mrs. Nakagami. ”

   The worst thing about people like Mrs. Nakagami is not in their direct actions, but rather that they tend to leave echoes in people around them. Hiromi has been subjected to Mrs. Nakagami’s hatred, possibly out of jealousy towards her mom, and when Hiromi herself had to experience jealousy, she merely reacted in the only was she was accustomed to. I find her reaction more sad than reviling, for it shows how terrible the ‘echo effect’ can be. And to be fair, at least Hiromi had the conscience in her to feel the irony of her statement right after she had said it.

   “I don

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8. 

   Crusader
   February 26th, 2008 - 21:27

   @Cipher
   Jealousy is merely proof of infatuation and a desire to to be Shin-chan’s girlfriend. Infatuation and love are two very different things and while you may say it is proof of her love, I see it as a profound lack of faith in Shin-chan’s love for her. Jealousy is based on suspicion that the object of your desire loves you less than you love him or her. Hiromi has not once wished for his happiness and now that Noe is able to deliver the happiness that she never could Hiromi gets jealous. If this is indeed “love” then clearly it is much less about any mutual happiness with Shin-chan, but rather what Hiromi wants.

   If she were of better faith Hiromi would not need to try and sabotage Noe and simply wait for their liaison to end on its own accord. Alas it was not to be and Hiromi has opted to be a stabber in the dark, treacherous to her foes, faithless to her friends, and a curse upon her mother. Aye actions speak louder than words and all that Hiromi has done around Shin is utterly contemptible. Hiromi has free will just because she lives in a hell doesn’t mean we should excuse her for being a demon.

   I understand the girl is infatuated, but despite her history, despite their physical co habitation, she knows not of Shin-chan’s aspirations. She knows nothing of his talent as an artist and has not encouraged him. She makes no move to forge ahead with her feelings content only to keep Shin-chan alone, for if Hiromi cannot have him, then no one shall so long as she wills it. Jun and Nobuse were able to let their loves go trusting that the happiness their beloved was and is paramount, but such stoicism is not to be found in Hiromi. I understand that she is jealous, but I cannot and will never excuse her for acting on such petty idiot emotion.

   Aye jealousy is not a crime, but more often like hatred it leads us to do terrible things darker than death or night because we feel justified in doing them. It is not her place to decide who Shin-chan can and cannot date, and as it stands if shared misery is what Hiromi calls love then so be it, but its a pale reflection of what love ought to be. Humans go through life making decisions and whether we allow emotion to rule it or disciplined logic there is always a right one, it is not always easy. It is foolish and wrong for one to ask for continual gratification of their desires, the world does not have enough resources to provide for such things nor should a person enter a relationship because his/her partner demands it, which is what Hiromi seems to want at this point.

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9. 

   Dirian
   February 26th, 2008 - 21:51

   Hiromi’s jealousy is most definitely indicative of her love, but that kind of love can be 9/10ths hatred and still call itself love, and it’s pretty unhealthy for all involved.

   What interests me is that some people will support Hiromi too the end based on shared history and supposed mutually unrequited love between her and Shin, yet decry Ai-chan as some kind of horrible person for entering into a proxy relationship just to get closer to Shin. I don’t get it. At least Ai-chan became honest with her feelings and both got out of her false relationship and made her true feelings known to the man she loves. She was rejected but at least she played it honestly and her reaction was much much healthier, honest, and better for all involved, herself included, than Hiromi’s reaction has been.

   In the end, Shin x Noe brings out the best in both characters(he really has been just an all around better person since getting together with her, and well Noe gets better exponentially pretty much regardless). For that matter Hiromi x Jun brings out the best in both characters. Meanwhile, Hiromi and Shin only seem to bring out the worst in each other, and I can’t see them living happily together even if they DO get together(say what you want about Mrs Nakagami, and I don’t deny she’s a cold heartless bitch of a woman, but it seems it’s always Shin bringing out the lying angry Hiromi all the time).

   When love turns into the kind of Jelousy Hiromi is exhibiting, and leads to the actions that Jealousy has inspired, then justified or not it really is better for that person to just let go of that love.

   Needless to say I’m shipping Noe x Shin all the way.

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10. 

    Dirian
    February 26th, 2008 - 22:12

    And wow Crusader kinda beat me to the punch and said it so much better than I could. *clap clap clap*

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11. 

    Cipher
    February 27th, 2008 - 03:58

    I really think I should get my own anime blog… That way I’d trouble less bloggers with obscenely long posts and discussions on their comments page ~_~

    “Jealousy is merely proof of infatuation and a desire to to be Shin-chan

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12. 

    Cipher
    February 27th, 2008 - 04:04

    “For example, I don

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13. 

    Dirian
    February 27th, 2008 - 16:34

    While we no doubt enjoy the drama, and in that sense never really want the characters to act how they should because then there’d be much less conflict, we can still discuss what they should do even if secretly we don’t want them too.

    “if she does let Shin-chan go his way and find happiness with Noe, what about her? Must she give happiness to Shinichiro at her own expense?”

    If she loves him? Yes. It’s hard, and it’s almost cruel to say, but yes, she must.

    And yet I ask you, what is she giving up? Her love for Shin is, as I have said, become a complicated form of hatred. It is now a horrible unhealthy thing and she must let go of it, not just for Shin’s happiness but for her own as well. Her love, as it now is, will not lead to happiness even if she and shin end up together. She must learn to let it go, to let it die because it is now love in name only and has become a demon.

    If she will let it die, if she will stop clinging to what she feels should have been, and is willing to look around at what is, she will find beyond expectation that what she wanted the whole time from Shin is there waiting for her in Jun. You may be right that what she wants is Shin and herself happy together, but at this point she wants what will not make her happy.

    In that sense I see Ai-chan as a parallel to Hiromi. She is letting her love for Shin blind her to the happiness that is right in front of her and I think, like Ai, she must let go of it before she can be redeemed. Ai-chan had to make her feelings known and be rejected. Perhaps Hiromi’s fate will be similar.

    So yes for her own good I think she should let go of Shin, sacrifice her own happiness for his, and yet I think when she does she will find at last her own happiness waiting for her, and where she hadn’t suspected it.

    “She has never decided for him who he can and can

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14. 

    Stripey
    February 27th, 2008 - 20:01

    Late to the discussion! Since it’s hard to insert myself into an already bustling discussion, I will just comment a little on the issues touched.

    On jealousy – Myself I tend closer to Cipher’s thoughts on jealousy since I don’t really see it as something evil at all. It’s the starting point for a lot of terrible things in love but folks don’t realise jealousy is an integral part of love and its impact depends really on how we act on this feeling. Much like how temptation is not a sin but fornication is. Granted, Hiromi behaved badly in this ep by saying unsavory things but there are few mitigating factors.

    1) Mrs Nakagami influence
    2) Her misconception of Noe
    3) Her bursting but suppressed feelings for Shin

    Frankly I’m surprised Hiromi hasn’t attempted suicide. The boy she likes turns out to be her brother. She tries to contain her feelings but they are forcibly yanked out by the very natural response of jealousy by seeing Noe and Shin together. Her stepmom hates her and her love/bro sets her up with someone else. Man, this has to be romance SUNRISE style.

    On pairings – I support the couple that has the most love. I look at Noe and I ask, who loves her more. Clearly it’s me… I mean Jun. I look at Hiromi. Obviously Shin has more going for her than Jun. Hiromi is also clearly in love with Shin so in Stripey’s equation of love

    (Jun X Noe) + (Shin X Hiromi) >> (Noe X Shin) + (Jun X Hiromi)

    Until either the magnitude of Shin X Noe or Jun X Hiromi increases dramatically, I’ll be supporting the left hand side of the equation.

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15. 

    Cipher
    February 27th, 2008 - 20:33

    Indeed, it is the drama that keeps up these discussions, and as you can probably tell by now, I fully support that

    Again, I am not saying that it is wrong for her to let go of Shin and choose Jun (eventually she may even come to choose so), but for now, at the present setting of true tears, when she lets go, she does not have anything left, except for a possible inkling that Jun might be a good boyfriend. Jun has shown relative worth as Hiromi’s companion, but to expect her to gamble on what little Jun has shown up to now and to injure herself so much just for Shinichiro is too much, surely. Yes, perhaps she should let go of Shinichiro and let him find his own happiness and eventually, her own as well, but as long as she continues to harbour feelings for Shinichiro, for her to let go is to admit defeat, and there is no prize for being second place in love. I promise that should there be enough proof that Jun is worth the gamble then I will revise my opinions but until then, I stand by what I have said.

    Regarding her form of love, yes I will cite difference in opinion lol. I perceive it as this: All the lies and deceptions she has made so far was to try and induce the “absence makes the heart grow fonder” effect on Shin; by trying to distance herself, she had hoped that Shinichiro would come after her. It has only shown the opposite effect, yes, but that was a risk she had to take from the outset, considering that she could not have made a direct approach for Shin. I don’t see how her actions have amounted to “If I can’t have him then no one can”, so yes, I don’t agree with your perception of her ultimate goal, or her form of love. Her tangles with Noe merely seem as the sort of friction between two worthy lovers, so I can’t really read so much into that. Besides, for her love to be possessive, it has to be in possession of Shin’s heart first, and currently, that’s not really the case now. Hence why I see it more as a fighting love than a possessive one. How it is akin to hatred, I don’t see, except for the ‘hurting him and herself part’ to which I can only say that hurt does not necessarily equal hate. Our parents have disciplined us before, and yet they have done so out of love, not hate. Sure we may have thought of it as hate back then, but now we know better, do we not? Similarly, who’s to say that, should he and Hiromi have a relationship, Shinichiro won’t feel the same about what Hiromi has done so far?

    Regarding her reactions being wrong, by what standards? There is no absolutely correct method or approach to love that applies to everyone, so partly it is in that line of thought I do not denounce her reactions. Perhaps you have your own views on the ideal form of love; I have not been given the privelege to experience such a love hence I am somewhat less opiniated to the various forms that love can take. Again, it falls down to our difference in opinion, and I think there is hardly much room for compromise about such a topic so I will leave it at that.

    To compare Shin/Hiromi to Mr/Mrs Nakagami is to already pass judgement that they are fated to end up as such, something surely done in haste considering they haven’t even started a relationship yet. Again, as I have said, things still need to happen, and issues still need resolving, so I find such a comparison unfair to them. Give them a chance and they may yet prove themselves. I once thought Noe to be a mere childlike girl with no intuition in love, and yet, as ep8 has shown me, that does not mean that she is an inferior lover.

    And with that, I would like to yield here with respect to discussing this ep. All in all, I would like to state that, just in case someone misinteprets my comments, that I do NOT have anything against Noe, or Jun. Neither am I a blind fanboy to Hiromi’s faults. I realise what she has done and its effects on others, but I merely wish to reason out her actions to people who denounce her and think of her as inferior. If PA Works wish for the ideal ending scene to be something based off Shin/Noe, I’m cool with it. Noe IS moe, after all It’s just that I have a CD of true tears’ ED single sitting on my desktop at home, and if you know who’s on the cover then you know who I’ve decided to support LOL.

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16. 

    Dirian
    February 27th, 2008 - 20:34

    Whatever Stripey, you’d support any double siscon ending just because it’s a double siscon ending and you know it. Don’t lie =P

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17. 

    Dirian
    February 27th, 2008 - 21:49

    Well you may yield for now, but I hope you won’t mind me responding to your last post anyway =P

    “Jun has shown relative worth as Hiromi

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18. 

    Stripey
    February 28th, 2008 - 05:25

    >Whatever Stripey, you

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19. 

    usagijen
    February 29th, 2008 - 03:56

    Noe x Shin forever!
    All you Hiromi supporters are making me cry ;____;
    I’m soo gonna cry if Noe doesn’t end up with Shin… ;____;

    I’ve always had bias against the indecisive emo Hiromis, so unless she redeems herself, by fighting against her ‘fate’ (which she somewhat brought upon herself), I’m all for Noe~

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20. 

    Icteridae
    March 2nd, 2008 - 17:34

    Well True Tears 09 should satisfy some people.

    Also, really funny True Tears youtube vid:
    

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21. 

    Stripey
    March 2nd, 2008 - 22:48

    usagijen: heh Hiromi is indeed a bundle of contradictions but I forgive since she’s in a impossible position of loving someone who is also the brother… alright I admit, few bro-loving imoutos can do wrong in my sight XD

    Icteridae: LOL! Thanks for the highlight! Actually I discover that vid from Omni too. The meld of the soundtrack with the visuals is impeccable!

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