1. 

   The Sojourner
   May 19th, 2008 - 04:31

   I wet myself during two scenes.

   1. When Ozma did a missile spamming barrage on the Vajra in Episode 2.

   2. When Ranka was singing My Boyfriend Is A Pilot in Episode 4.

   Maybe you are right to an extent about the flatness of some aspects in the characters but I am starting to feel that it is going to pick up when we are thrown into the heat of the story. With varying agendas of their own, I would like to see how the elaboration of the characters will be as the story proceeds.

   Oh yeah. Gotta agree that the nostalgia is like one of the main reasons why I am enjoying this show.

   ( REPLY )
2. 

   Myssa Rei
   May 19th, 2008 - 05:47

   I’m not sure it’s thr characters themselves that are REALLY impeding Stripey’s enjoyment of the series, but the fact that they’re such blatant homages to SDF Macross’ dramatis personae. They’re not complete clones however, but they’re similar enough that many believe that the archetypes were thrown into a character blender. Ranka for example, is in some ways the pre-stardom Minmay (from the TV series), while Sheryl mixes a bit of Misa Hayase with the Minmay we had in DYRL.

   ( REPLY )
3. 

   muhootsaver
   May 19th, 2008 - 09:26

   I’m having a similar problem with this series. While I like the battle scenes and story development, I just can’t seem to like the main characters (Alto, Ranka, Sheryl). My personal favorite is Sheryl, because I tend to like confident characters over someone like Ranka, who seems to have low self-esteem. I believe the producers seem to favor Sheryl, too. Look how much effort they put into her drawings compared to that of Ranka. She is about the only one who gets that nice hair shadings. Worst is Alto. I hate how DUMB and Irresponsible he is. On top of that, his temp issue is just beyond control.

   ( REPLY )
4. 

   Crusader
   May 19th, 2008 - 11:00

   Keep in mind that Sheryl and Alto-hime are supposedly 17, while Ranka clocks in at 16. Given this how much life experience are they supposed to have Alto-hime is an idiot hies years of learning to be the successor of the Mako-chan Clan of Kabuki actors has certainly dulled his sense of gender nuances and love out side of the scripted. Just because you were an evil tanuki at age 13 looking up women’s skirts and pursuing every loli that crossed your path does not mean that at age 17 you ought to be wiser, wisdom doesn’t hit home really until the 30s when the young adult years have passed. Thing is we are here to watch them grow up, but for guys like Ozma he’s still 21 or at least he wants to be 21 again. They are still a bunch of kids learning the ropes I am sure they will learn and grow in due time its 25 episodes long so just be patient during the journey.

   There is an elegance in simplicity though if they are headed for a complex and tear jerking journey we already see that Sheryl and Ranka might come to blows despite their cordial relationship. Alto-hime will grow up in the press of combat and sooner or later he will have to deal with his past. It’s not about Alto-hime being the chosen one who will save the world its about a bunch of guys doing their jobs and achieving something greater as a real team. As an aviation junkie I like how they have inserted those lovely details to pander to fighter lovers like me. I like complexity in some things as much as the next guy but this ain’t fucking KGNE its a more simple love story, that while rather mundane it is nonetheless sweet. Its seeming insignificance in the grand scheme of things fits into the ethos of Micron society being greater than the sum of its parts. It’s not going to be Alto-hime raging at the world that will vanquish all their enemies but the power of culture in which Alto-hime is but a small contributor.

   Given that you were at most some poor dog faced conscript dragged against your will to serve your people, I doubt you can understand those who opt to volunteer for the rigorous life of soldaten. At age 17 were many of us better than what Alto-hime is now? I doubt that at 17 we were rip, roaring, and ready to settle down in a job and start a family. Alto-hime might be dumb and hot headed, but his mates are ever ready to pound him when he gets out of line, like the time Bobby gave Alto-hime a makeover that he will not soon forget. Given how it’s probably the first time each of them has experienced this emotion called love I can forgive them if they stumble, unlike you most people were not born ready to love and romance. Romance is a skill just like lying, it takes practice.

   As a lover of harem how dar you question the win and brokeness of Alto-hime. He is in my opinion more likable than the twits like Takayuki, because unlike the latter Alto-hime is not actively trying to sabotage his life and those of everyone around him for the sake of himself and his love. Not all love has to be full of doroma and angst under your sick doctrine of jealousy being an indicator of strength. Given how this is definitely two cuts above Macross 7 I like how they opted to keep things simple rather than shooting for complexity and then failing utterly. The way I see it Alto-hime makes for decent enough weregild for inflicting Basara Nekki upon us.

   You made me suffer through Cabbage Love, the least you could do is try and ride out something that does not make the eyes bleed.

   ( REPLY )
5. 

   Beowulf Lee
   May 19th, 2008 - 13:08

   Oh come on. Complaining about flatness (as in the characters, not their chests) in anime characters in general is like complaining that most anime characters’ eyes are too big. I actually like Ranka’s voice. There’s a roughness to it that makes it seem more genuine.

   ( REPLY )
6. 

   Kaioshin Sama
   May 19th, 2008 - 14:48

   I actually think the characters are okay, but I sort of see what you mean at times. Lately the characters have been improving quite a bit on the interaction and development front though so I’d argue the series has left the events of episodes like the third one behind.

   At least you make it clear that you are the one who is having trouble receiving them well unlike the people that are blaming Code Geass’ writers for not liking how the characters are developing. There’s nothing wrong with the way you are taking it in my opinion as people have different tastes. Hopefully they’ll grow on you at some point.

   Now if only they could get the damn character designs consistent between episodes then we’d be completely golden. That’s my major beef with the series versus how they are developing.

   ( REPLY )
7. 

   Viny
   May 19th, 2008 - 15:16

   I never watched Macross Frontier (something didn’t click when i saw the main pic)
   But just by looking at the pic u put up, it looks kinda dodgy

   ( REPLY )
8. 

   Haesslich
   May 19th, 2008 - 16:13

   I hate the animation more than the characterization. They do a LOT of homages to previous Macross series, not just in the characters – we have situations which are reminiscent of the original series, and that means that they seem to focus more on the homage at times than on the characters.

   As Crusader points out, the characters are young – they’re not going to be very nuanced, lacking a lot of the life experiences that would give them any real ‘depth’. Sheryl I find to be surprisingly ‘deep’ as a character, more so than many real-life counterparts are, perhaps due to her less-than-happy upbringing and the time we get to see both sides (the bitchy diva, the girl who she was before and under the diva role). She certainly has more character than say… Britney Spears, or most other pop divas I can think of in real life.

   As for the seiyuu… I personally say Nakajima’s doing an excellent job – she doesn’t sound ‘practiced’ at all, but instead young and unforced, and her singing has a similar quality unlike May’n (I’m sorry to say this, but she sounds a bit forced when she sings “Don’t Be Late”, and I suspect the post-processing which happened in the May’N Sheryl CD is due to this).

   Besides which, we’re still developing the characters, giving the audience time to bond with them a bit… since once the action hits the fan, we’ll have less time to ficus on them, which means that withuout an attachment to the trio, or seeing how they’re tied together, the triangle will fall rather flat. If you think it feels forced NOW, imagine the dorama of a full-blown love triangle but where we’ve not seen them with any bonding time.

   ( REPLY )
9. 

   8ghosts
   May 19th, 2008 - 18:33

   complaining about characters and characters flatness is laughable coming from someone who enjoys harems almost exclusively

   ( REPLY )
10. 

    Stripey
    May 20th, 2008 - 06:33

    The Sojourner: Macross missile trails remain one of the highest points of the franchise! I’ve always wondered about the wastefulness of such a flamboyant attack though

    Myssa Rei: I remembered very very little of the original Macross anime though it has a special place in my anime heart. I remember Robotech novels much better and their characterisation was I thought rather well crafted

    muhootsaver: Indeed, Alto is severely hampering my enjoyment of the series. I understand he’s supposed to be an angsty 17 yr old but it looks like he’s just anger for the sake of slipping into his character archetype. They need to start making his anger outbursts better justified. XD

    Crusader: LOL! Another eloquent rant by Cru-nii san XD My problem with Alto is not what the series has crafted him to be but how the series fails to make him credible. I’m ok with angsty teenagers in anime if only they behave credibly like one. Alto doesn’t and his outbursts come across as dumb instead. Cabbage love? What’s that? XD

    Beowulf Lee:

    >>Complaining about flatness (as in the characters, not their chests)..

    LOL! It’s hard to read past that with tears in your eyes XD

    Kaioshin Sama: Thanks. I can definitely see their potential for growth and am hoping for greater coherence in their character development so that they’d become much more endearing than now.

    Viny: I recommend it for their delicious dogfights The romance factor is meh at the moment but hopefully it’d improve as inject more consistency in their characters.

    Haesslich: heh I sure hope the characters improve but as mentioned to Crusader, it’s not just a matter of young or immature characters but poorly portrayed characters for who they are supposed to be. Sheryl is indeed the best of the lot followed by Ranka. The guys… man, they have a lot to catch up

    8ghosts: 2 fallacies. Harem account for less than 20% of my anime intake

    http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Stripey

    2nd. Harem and good, coherent character development are not mutually exclusive. I recommend another of my entry to hopefully cure you of anime bigotry.

    http://hontouni.com/zan/?p=479

    ( REPLY )
11. 

    Myssa Rei
    May 20th, 2008 - 09:20

    Stripey: LOL Do you know that I have the complete Robotech AND Sentinel series sitting at home, plus End of the Circle and the side-novels? Well-done stuff, those. I found it ironic that the Zentraedi in the Robotech-Sentinels series achieved what the Zentraedi in Macross mainstream had (culturization) in an EXTREMELY roundabout manner (making babies only really happened in the epilogue of Sentinels).

    Only complaint I had was the fact that, uh, the main cast kept their 80s hairstyles despite their advancement in age. It took me a LONG time to visualize Max in his Macross 7 incarnation for the latter parts of Sentinels/End of the Circle.

    ( REPLY )
12. 

    Haesslich
    May 20th, 2008 - 15:54

    Stripey: The guys DO get the shaft, development-wise, and Alto’s a jerk whose main redeeming talent is an ability to survive the worst situations. Luca’s the token shota, while Mikhail is the token smartass, and Bobby is the token okama while Ozma… well, he’s the token angsty guy with a chip on his shoulder, with Captain Wilder getting to be the token womanizer. There’s still room for them to develop, and they’re doing better than say… Gundam SEED’s characters towards the end, much less SEED Destiny’s.

    Myssa: Robotech’s an.. interesting adaptation, although the Shadow Chronicles movie basically writes “End of the Circle” out of canon. Certainly, the novels fleshed things out WAY better than the series did, especially during the Southern Cross and New Generation/Invid arcs. As for the Sentinels… well, Zentradi had some culture, but it took Breetai being seducted by the sexiest Meltlandi since Miriya to do so (I share his confusion regarding how Kaziana Hesh managed to obtain enough makeup to wear while Macronized, as well as his fascination with how she managed to inject a sexy sway into the walk of her Queadlunn-Rau).

    ( REPLY )
13. 

    Myssa Rei
    May 20th, 2008 - 21:54

    Haess: I know, I kind of facepalmed during some of the sequences of the movie, most obvious being the fact of Ariel/Marlene not being recognized by her supposed brother (I think the books made it a point that she’s a virtually identical to Marlene Rush, except for her hair color). It’s been a while since I’ve read the books in depth, but I still noticed some stuff that stuck out like a sore thumb.

    Ooh, and the Korean studio outsourcing, so not noticeable…

    Also, Haydonites, evil? The heck?

    Back to Frontier… I dunno about the guys of Frontier getting the shaft development-wise, as it’s far too early in the series to tell. They *are* shifting into some genre (and franchise!) stereotypes though, which can either be a very good (or very bad) thing.

    ( REPLY )
14. 

    8ghosts
    May 20th, 2008 - 22:11

    I actually enjoy harems ^_^
    and I love Kotori too o_O

    ( REPLY )
15. 

    Haesslich
    May 21st, 2008 - 12:54

    Myssa: Yes, that’s what took Scott by surprise when they first met Marlene/Ariel – she looked JUST like the Marlene Rush who’d been lost with the rest of the cruisers. Which is why it makes no sense here… although maybe we can excuse it by saying that Harmony Gold can’t be bothered to rewatch old episodes of the series they’re making money off of. Only in the novels do they conclude that the Regis may have ‘cloned’ Marlene from the DNA off of a piece of wreckage to create the simulagents, but Scott WAS moping around when Rook stumbled onto Marlene.

    Let’s just say that sort of boneheadedness is the type of thing which causes rabid Macross fans to froth and rave angrily, while trumpeting the inferiority of the Robotech products. I can’t blame them with THAT particular one.

    And Frontier’s guys really don’t get much time, except Leon who’s looking villainous, and Ozma who gets to fill the single parent/overprotective parent role. As for the Haydonites, I think someone read one chapter of “End of the Circle” and decided to ignore everything from the Sentinels novels and the show in order to create a villain that they could understand, outside of the Shadows of the Shadow Chronicles.

    By the by, does anyone else think they were trying to be ironic during the episode Marlene was introduced (Enter Marlene) when they described her being ‘carefully placed into this desolate environment’… while showing the cocoon being dropped from the claws of the transport, bouncing through a tree branch by branch, then slamming into the ground?

    That, and the optimism a certain blue-haired pilot displayed despite knowing the planet was literally teeming with the enemy, and wondering why 6000 people couldn’t hold against several million Invid… wait, now I know who wrote Shadow Chronicles.

    ( REPLY )
16. 

    Myssa Rei
    May 21st, 2008 - 16:56

    Haess: I don’t have the books on hand (left them back home, as there’s only so much I could bring for the training trip to Arlington), but I don’t think that was the intent. HOWEVER, placed into the context of the series, yes, it does seem ironic. Then again, invid shock troopers aren’t known for their gentle touch, noh?

    And Scott? Optimistic? Stubborn (40k version) with a pinch of fatalism is more like it. Honestly I thought that Rand was the most optimistic (and sane) member of the bunch…

    It amused me very much how the mighty Beta was transformed into a mix of Macross’ FAST pack and Armor modules for the Alphas commanders flew. At least they kept the missile spams…

    ( REPLY )
17. 

    Haesslich
    May 21st, 2008 - 17:30

    Myssa: The novels don’t have that insertion scene. They just have Scott being all cheerful about reaching Point K, despite having seen the Mars Division get wasted and knowing there are like millions of Invid in North America… only to encounter devastation at Point K, since he forgot the simple lesson the Zentradi taught Earth – sheer mass is a virtue by itself. And with Invid, even Zentradi usually had to fight them outnumbered dozens, if not hundreds, to one. But the narrator says it with such a straight face, or so it appears, even as this egg’s bouncing all around and down through a tree.

    Seriously, he was actually optimistic (for him) by expecting that they’d be supported and able to find a coherent force at Point K… and so got further into his usual state of depression after realizing that, yes, Invid will attack in swarms. Hell, I’m surprised they found as many Alphas and that Beta as it was, just because anything with Protoculture should’ve drawn Invid like flowers do bees. I think Annie’s more optimistic than Rand was, but that’s because she’s the irrepressible kid stereotype.

    To this day, I’ve yet to figure out where Scott kept hundreds of missiles in that Alpha of his, which was always running low on Protoculture and everything else. They weren’t SMALL missiles either, like the Queadlunn-Rau’s in Macross had either – they were huge things the size of ‘standard’ missiles, yet we never saw any in Lunk’s jeep, or any in places that he could’ve found them. That made no sense to me.

    ( REPLY )
18. 

    Stripey
    May 23rd, 2008 - 08:09

    8ghosts: Ah a Kotori lover! I’ve been preaching to the choir then

    Haesslich/Myssa Rei: Sorry I’m lost, are we talking about Mospeda or Shadow Chronicles here? I’m a HUGE fan of the novels… but I can’t rem much except Invid invasion (ie the Scott bernard arc) was my favourite part of the books.

    ( REPLY )
19. 

    Myssa Rei
    May 23rd, 2008 - 14:01

    Stripey: A bit of both actually, as the two are *supposed* to overlap (or rather, Shadow Chronicles is supposedly the ‘correct’ ending to the Invid Invasion set of Robotech). Only Scott and Marlene seemed to have made the transition properly, though Marlene/Ariel all of the sudden no longer *looks* like Marlene Rush to everyone else.

    As for the missiles, in the anime, yes they made absolutely no sense, but I do recall in book two (correct me on this, don’t have the books on hand) or so of Invid Invasion where it alludes to the fact that the missiles the cyclones were supposed to use could also be equipped on the Alphas/Beta.

    ( REPLY )
20. 

    Haesslich
    May 23rd, 2008 - 16:32

    Stripey: We’ve moved beyond you into the realms of true Robotech geekery, arguing about things which did or didn’t happen… and how the ‘canon’ of the Sentinels novels (and that last novel, End of the Circle) don’t tie in with the official canon anymore due to some idiocy on the parts of Harmony Gold.

    In Mospeada/New Generation, episode 80 “Enter Marlene), it’s Marlene’s screaming which broke Scott out of his ‘emo’ mode… since he saw Marlene in Ariel, and immediately superimposed Marlene’s screaming face over Ariel’s in something that would’ve been deja-vu, had he seen something like this before (which he couldn’t have, as Marlene died in a different manner, and presumably not standing in the middle of the bridge as the ship broke up). That’s the whole POINT of Ariel showing up the way she did – Scott sees Marlene in her, which is why he’s so broken up later on when they discover the truth about her origins… and everyone turns on Scott for shunning her, when she’s so obviously broken up about being both Invid as well as disliked by Scott.

    Myssa: That’s Book 11, Metamorphosis – and I don’t recall them saying anything about that. The Bludgeons aren’t apparently interchangeable with the Cyclone missiles… and I still can’t figure out where they were scavenging those.

    Now this is for Stripey, from that part of the book (which does a dandy job of making sense of the anime).

    He clamped the locket shut once more, cutting off the loop. Marlene! Suddenly he heard the sound of powerful engines and looked up. The APC was returning with Rook at the wheel and Annie crouched nervously in the back seat. Rand was playing outrider on his Cyclone. The Alpha was playing mother hen to the bulky Beta Fighter. Scott figured Lunk was babying the Beta along; the big ex-soldier had some flight time, although he preferred the ground. But who was that in the APC’s shotgun seat?
    He got a better look and leapt to his feet without realizing it. Marlene!
    The hair was a different color, but the face, the skin, the eyes-the very posture of her-these things were those of his dead fianc

    ( REPLY )
21. 

    Stripey
    May 26th, 2008 - 09:01

    Myssa Rei: Hmmm maybe I’ll take a peek at Shadow Chronicles Thx for the heads up!

    Hasselich: Wow, makes me want to read the whole series all over again.. or at least invide invasion

    ( REPLY )
22. 

    Haesslich
    May 26th, 2008 - 13:34

    Stripey: You may not want to watch the Shadow Chronicles. Three words: “Children of Shadow”. Also see above posts for how the series seems to break its own canon by doing this. And that last quote’s one way to look at Scott’s little breakdown in the above-named episode… and a pretty good description of the scene in question.

    ( REPLY )
23. 

    Haesslich
    May 31st, 2008 - 17:31

    Also check out episode 9… for the oneesama and nii-chan lovers. It’s a siscon-fest.

    Macronized Chibi Klein.

    ( REPLY )

Leave a comment Cancel reply